Notify Message
Forums
Page 1
Search
#14372225 Jun 11, 2020 at 08:02 PM · Edited 1 minute ago
Crew
21 Posts
Maybe this post would be better as a wiki article . . . oh well.
Quillia is tired of writing, so I'ma post this and be done with it. This site's lack of nice formatting be damned.

This post is a bit late coming, and is loosely based on a guild discussion on the 2nd of June 2020.
We had just lost a siege (partially due to the malice of a non-guild member. . .) and decided that it would be a good idea to come up with some strategy/best practices for team play.
Another crew member was going to start a thread, but then he didn't, so I'm starting it without consulting him :P

Since I'm a new player and I want everyone to be on the same page, I'd like to start out by laying down some basic terminology (and some terms
I made up for things brought up in the discussion).

After that I'd like to discuss standard (and maybe nonstandard?) uses of the emoticons, so that we can have fast communication without having to type things out.
(By the way though, it's possible to set any text ("Don't tangle my tengu!" for example) as a spell, and it can append the name of the currently targeted player. . .)

I'll finish with a few specifics related to the current doomsday sieges and turn it over to y'all who are much more experienced than me to tell me everything I said was wrong so I can retroactively change it to look smart *hides*.

Basic Terminology

Classes, It couldn't hurt to briefly go over these even though they're detailed in the wiki.

Archer
Hits things with arrows, sometimes really fast. They can be a bit fragile, but often don't take damage if they stay out of enemy attack range.
They generally prefer to attack one target at a time, though it's not impossible for them to deal with a group of a few mobs with similar movement speed.
Mage
Hits things with magic. The two main mage spells are #confringo and #ingrav. Mages can also heal with #inma and #lum.
#confringo is fast and powerful, but eats MP too quickly to be useful in extended combat. #confringo can hit through small barriers like trees, but not through big walls like fences or cliffs (even if you're in range).
#ingrav is pretty slow and uses up somewhat expensive [iron powder] but it does lots of damage (maybe a bit less than #confringo depending on your speed), and uses almost no MP.
#lum is the lesser healing spell, mostly used for healing one's self. It works similarly to eating food/ forcing food down someone else's throat.
#inma is the better healing spell, it heals instantly, has a wide range, doesn't eat items, and can be used through walls and cliffs. The only downside is that the user cannot gain hp (through any means) for 5~10 seconds after casting.
Note that healing spells don't report to the caster how much (or if) their healing spell actually healed.
Warrior
Hits things with swords, either very hard (raging) or very fast (speed). They also usually have good defense and can take hits from multiple mobs at once.
Raging warriors can do lots of critical hits, which ignore armor (I think) and cannot be avoided.
Unlike Archers and mages, warriors generally stand in one place while attacking mobs, which makes them a bit more vulnerable to being hassled by stray mobs, so many warriors try to aggro a small group of mobs and handle them in a safe location.
Runner
Runners are the only class that doesn't hit things :( , instead they aggravate mobs with #itenplz and then run away so the mobs will target them and not anyone else.
If a runner dies then all the mobs that were targeting them will disperse and kill everyone around them. Don't let the runner die.
Healer
Hits people with the heals ;). All mages can heal, but sometimes it's good strategy to have someone near the respawn point to heal the newly living from half health up to full.
You can only get xp from your summons if you're on the same map, but some siege maps have an unreachable separate area like the roof of wizard's rest or the cliffs by Hurnscald mines. So it's possible to summon something and then run to the unreachable area while your summon kills monsters and gets xp.

Mechanics and Formulas:

Mdef/Def
If a mob has high Mdef then magic attacks do less damage; if a mob has high Def then regular attacks do less damage.
XP Formula
As I understand it (and I could be wrong, please correct me if I am) the xp you get from a mob is:
(base mob xp)*(%damage you did to that mob)*1.6^(number of people who hit the mob)
If someone else hits your mob, you will always get more xp per hit you've done to the mob.
If you spend most of your time hitting mobs you should always appreciate someone else hitting your mob, but if you spend a good deal of time moving your mob to a safe location only for someone else to take your mob and deal most of the damage to it you will be less appreciative.
Hit Chance
Level+dex+modifiers = accuracy.
(Level+agi+modifiers = evasion.)
If you have the same accuracy as the mob's evasion, then you will hit the mob 80% of the time (excluding criticals). You will hit the mob 1% more frequently for each point of accuracy you have up to 95%.
Magic hits 100% of the time, but will never get a critical hit.
Critical Hit
Criticals hit regardless of accuracy, and do lots of damage. The chance to get/receive criticals is affected by the luck stat.
Stun
When you hit an enemy (and don't miss) the enemy will stop moving for a short moment and snap to the nearest tile.
If your attack speed is close to the enemy's movement speed, or a multiple of their speed (eg if you hit twice as fast as they
move), then you can keep an enemy stuck on one tile which is convenient for archers and mages.
Mobs move slower when moving diagonally, so you can sometimes stun an enemy on the diagonal at a lower attack speed. In my personal experience this is usually a bit less reliable than stunning an enemy orthogonally (north south east west).
Confusion Stun
If ranged attackers with similar attack speed attack a mob from opposite sides the mob will have trouble deciding which direction to move and will stay in roughly the same area.
Monster Attention
A mob will move towards and attack (this is known as 'targeting') the last person who hit it or cast #itenplz on it, or if it's an aggressive mob, the first person who came near it while it was in an idle state (not attacking someone).
If a mob is targeting player A, it will not harm player B unless player B attacks the mob or otherwise changes the mob's target.

Behaviors and Tactics:

Monster Pushing
If a player dies or exits the map all mobs targeting them will lose interest and become idle. If player A has several aggressive mobs targeting them, then runs towards player B, then dies or exits the map, the mobs targeting player A will target player B.
Player A just pushed their mob onto player B and that's mean. Try not to do that.
Entrance Clogging
If player A has several aggressive mobs targeting them and runs through the entrance to the map, those mobs will become idle and attack the next person to enter the map.
Player A just clogged the entrance and that's mean. Try not to do that.
Monster Pulling
Player A who is a ranged attacker sees player B who is a warrior being attacked by several mobs. Player A attacks one of the mobs Player B is not currently attacking, and the mob stops attacking player B.
Player A just pulled a mob from player B. Sometimes this is a good thing; if player B was being overwhelmed by too many mobs this might have saved her from certain death.
On the other hand, if player B wanted to kill that mob herself, this can be seen as stealing the monster she worked hard to secure.
Monster Tapping
Player A who is a ranged attacker sees player B who is a warrior being attacked by several mobs. Player A attacks the mob player
B is currently attacking and lands a single hit, then stops attacking.
Player A just tapped Player B's mob, which will increase the amount of xp player B will get for killing that mob. Good on player A.
It's easy to try and tap someone's mob and end up pulling it instead.
Drop Stealing (higher level player kills your mob)
IMO the name for this behavior is a bit confusing. When a mob dies and drops an item the person who dealt the most damage (the last person to hit the mob might get factored in as well IDK) gets priority to pick up the dropped item.
If someone else tries to pick it up they will get the message "this item belongs to another player", but after some time has elapsed anyone can pick up the item.
Dropped items expire after 2 minutes if nobody picks them up.
Drop stealing is when a high level player goes around 'helping' lower level players to kill their targets, deals more damage than them to the mob, then takes the dropped items.
Drop stealing is bad and will get you banned from CRC.
. . . Trying to pick up random drops on the ground is not drop stealing.
Other:

Potions
Iron potions increase your attack damage for 1 minute (unless you're a Mage) and can be crafted for 2 small mushrooms (which can be bought for 125gp each in the swamp).
Concentration potions increase your attack speed for 1 minute (unless you're a mage) and can be bought for 500gp or crafted for 2
pink petals. Farming pink petals in Hurnscald has about the same efficiency (it might be slightly worse) as farming red slimes, selling the equipment and buying Concentration potions.

Emoticon Signaling
alt-1 :disgust:
I'm dying, please heal me!
alt-3, alt-9, alt-w (alt-6)
Thanks!
alt-6, alt-9
No problem.
alt-0 :xx:
RIP,
Out of mana; no heals.
alt-a :squint:
Help, I can't deal with my mob, please assist.
alt-s :purple frown:
I'm annoyed by what just happened.

Problems/Specifics
Who should target what?
Tengu
Mages, since they have low Mdef.
Sasquach
Anyone, roughly equal def/Mdef.
Mana Slayer
These are the death of mages, high Mdef and faster than a mage wearing [lazurite robe].
If a warrior is fighting one or several it'd be wise not to steal it from them.
Flashmob etc.
These are harder (and arguably deadlier) than the rest of the mobs, and are fair game for everyone to pound on.
Golem
drops a [wumpus egg] which can be turned in for a rare prize.

Mana guardians hitting each other.
Mana guardians hitting players.


Sorry for wall of text . . .
+4
#14373151 Jun 13, 2020 at 08:07 AM
Crew
4 Posts
Thank you very much to bring a bit order into the whole thing! :D very nice Text
Princess of the Cookie KingdomπŸͺπŸͺπŸͺ
+0
#14405620 Aug 17, 2020 at 03:29 PM · Edited 11 days ago
Crew
5 Posts
Hit Chance
Level+agi+modifiers = accuracy


should be...

Hit Chance
Level+dex+modifiers = accuracy

------------

Runners are the only class that doesn't hit things :( , instead they aggravate mobs with #itenplz and then run away so the mobs will target them and not anyone else.


I'll add that a great mage can run, heal and attack at the same time, but must watch MP. Also, many runners itenplz far too often and drag mobs away from players trying to attack them. Once a mob is locked on a runner, only running off screen or another player attacking it will make them not target the runner. There is no further reason to use itenplz again, unless mobs start to get away or they get too close to the runner. itenplz will also stun the mobs for a moment, so doing it to avoid getting hit is completely understandable.

------------
Dropped items expire after 2 minutes if nobody picks them up.


Yip. After 1 min, the person that did the second most amount of damage can also pick up that item. I disabled drop highlights for a bit because it looks nicer only to miss knowing when I was able to pick up a drop and multiple dropped items at once can't be seen without the highlighting on.

------------
the xp you get from a mob is:
(base mob xp)*(%damage you did to that mob)*1.6^(number of people who hit the mob)


I'm still trying to figure it out. They are calculated a bit different depending on the mob though. There is an EXP value that for most mobs is actually 0. I noticed that Doom Golems and Enchanters will always give the same exact amount of exp every time you attack one alone and that amount matches exact to the EXP value in the DB, so there has to be a basic exp calculation for mobs that have an exp value of 0. There is also an EXP% value that only Krukan has, but could be applied to any mob.

------------
When you hit an enemy (and don't miss) the enemy will stop moving for a short moment


One thing to add here is range matters. As a melee fighter I've noticed that you can only freeze/stun mobs if they do not have a longer range than you, regardless of the range you are at. This seems to be why freezing skeletons works, but freezing Lady Skeletons does not. I know archers experience the opposite because it takes less agi to freeze them as long as you have the range advantage.

------------
The Double Damage Advantage:
Here's a neat trick I noticed. As ragers, we tend to go for a high critical percentage and dismiss accuracy, but there are cases where having an accuracy that comes close to the critical rate will give you more overall damage for exp. If you use the bull helmet and sand cutter, you have a combined 25% chance to get x2 dmg. In places like the GY, it's best to have speed and a luck of 66 to beat the skeleton's 65 luck to avoid criticals when using speed, but ragers will most likely want more than 66, but if the crit rate gets so high that you always hit with criticals, you lose the x2 dmg factor. If the percentage of accuracy shows as slightly less than the critical rate, then you have a recipe to decimate things much faster due to every normal hit becoming x2, but don't waste your time trying this on yeti and event mobs as their defense is so high that even with x2 dmg, you will never achieve the dmg of your crit. Building a fast fighter with speed to get more x2 dmg might be worth trying in the GY, but I'd bet the guaranteed crit rate with the extra x2 dmg hits would score the highest exp.

------------
Dex = speed:
Something people never seem to mention is how dexterity also makes attack speed go up. This happens about 1/2 the rate of agi, therefore if attack speed is all you want, then make sure dex is always about 1/2 the points of agi. Because lower pts cost less to get, you can attain at a faster attack rate mixing the 2, rather than just using agi to be faster, but dex will not help to evade, so beware.
Ledmitz = Mystic = Mystical_Servant = Ardits = Killer Bee = BoomBoom = Tipsy Skeleton
+0
#14405735 Aug 17, 2020 at 11:39 PM
Crew
21 Posts
:D Thanks for the addendum Ledmitz!

Full disclosure, Rikki and I poked around the code for mob xp distribution a while back and it's a bit different than what I had posted:

Step 1) the server calculates the 'base xp' of the mob. it either takes this value from a table (mobdb), or calculates it on the fly. Some mobs (like spiders) can have slight variance in their stats, so some mobs of the same type can give slightly different amounts of 'base xp'.

Step 2) the 'base xp' is increased depending on how many people hit the mob. On Legacy servers the xp increases 200% if two people hit the mob, and goes up to about 300% if six people hit the mob (if more than 6 people hit the mob the bonus does not increase). On Evol/rEvolt/Hercules servers there is something like +20% increase per person who hits the mob, up to a maximum of 10 (or so) people. In Hercules the exact values for the bonuses and the max number of people are easy to change. (hint hint)

Step 3) the new amount of xp is distributed based on damage dealt to the mob for everyone who is on the same map as the mob. (If you hit the mob and you left the map I think your 'share' of the xp just disappears, but I could be wrong.)

I might be wrong about the exact values (I'm too lazy to look them up again) but that's the gist from what I remember.
+0
#14409287 Aug 24, 2020 at 10:52 PM
Crew
5 Posts
#14372225 Quillia wrote:


If someone else tries to pick it up they will get the message "this item belongs to another player", but after some time has elapsed anyone can pick up the item.
Dropped items expire after 2 minutes if nobody picks them up.



Item have protection for 15 seconds, during this time only MVP can pick.
After this, it'll have 10 seconds where the MVP and the 2nd most damage can pick.
And for 5 more seconds it'll allow the 3 MVPs.

Then anyone can pick.



By the way, Ledmitz.
Stun time is a field of the monster database, and a few monsters have this value nearly zero-ed.
This means even if you stun it successfully, it'll be stunned for too little time before resuming movement.
Walk speed also affects.

Dex is not taken in account for magic hits (due to devs laziness)

Some monsters have "mutations" which change all stats incl. exp gain.

If you leave the map your share of EXP will not be counted but it should not vanish just because that. I.E. It vanishes when the monster die if you're not on the map.

Jesusalva (aka. Jesusaves)
+0
#14411313 Aug 28, 2020 at 07:29 PM
Crew
5 Posts
ID, Name, Jname, LV, HP, SP, EXP, JEXP, Range1, ATK1, ATK2, DEF, MDEF, STR, AGI, VIT, INT, DEX, LUK, Range2, Range3, Scale, Race, Element, Mode, Speed, Adelay, Amotion, Dmotion, Drop1id, Drop1per, Drop2id, Drop2%, Drop3id, Drop3%, Drop4id, Drop4%, Drop5id, Drop5%, Drop6id, Drop6%, Drop7id, Drop7%, Drop8id, Drop8%, Item1, Item2, MEXP, ExpPer, MVP1id, MVP1per, MVP2id, MVP2per, MVP3id, MVP3per, mutationcount, mutationstrength

Those are the headings, but which is for stun? I could eliminate most of the obvious ones...

Range2, Range3, Scale, Race, Element, Mode, Amotion, Dmotion, Item1, Item2, MEXP, ExpPer, MVP1id, MVP1per, MVP2id, MVP2per, MVP3id, MVP3per

Even most of these, I think I know. Which is stun?
Ledmitz = Mystic = Mystical_Servant = Ardits = Killer Bee = BoomBoom = Tipsy Skeleton
+0
#14420934 Sep 16, 2020 at 10:49 PM
Crew
5 Posts
#14411313 Ledmitz wrote:

ID, Name, Jname, LV, HP, SP, EXP, JEXP, Range1, ATK1, ATK2, DEF, MDEF, STR, AGI, VIT, INT, DEX, LUK, Range2, Range3, Scale, Race, Element, Mode, Speed, Adelay, Amotion, Dmotion, Drop1id, Drop1per, Drop2id, Drop2%, Drop3id, Drop3%, Drop4id, Drop4%, Drop5id, Drop5%, Drop6id, Drop6%, Drop7id, Drop7%, Drop8id, Drop8%, Item1, Item2, MEXP, ExpPer, MVP1id, MVP1per, MVP2id, MVP2per, MVP3id, MVP3per, mutationcount, mutationstrength

Those are the headings, but which is for stun? I could eliminate most of the obvious ones...

Range2, Range3, Scale, Race, Element, Mode, Amotion, Dmotion, Item1, Item2, MEXP, ExpPer, MVP1id, MVP1per, MVP2id, MVP2per, MVP3id, MVP3per

Even most of these, I think I know. Which is stun?



MVP -> Most Valuable Player, a feature removed in M+ and which will break both TMWA and Hercules alike (because, uhh, it breaks M+!!) Covers MEXP and ExpPer

Range2 -> Probably View Range

Range3 -> Probably Chase Range

Scale, Race, Element -> Unused in TMWA. Monsters have all these three identifiers which can be exploited for extra damage (eg. a big sword is not ideal to kill an ant, and a dagger will cause even less damage against a giant dragon or whatever - SCALE) (others should be more intuitive)

Mode -> Bitwise field containing monster configuration, eg. can move, can attack, is aggressive, assist each other, etc etc.

Amotion -> Attack Motion Time (time to execute attack)

Dmotion -> Damage Motion Time (time to display damage animation aka. stun)

Item1/Item2 -> I have no idea.
Jesusalva (aka. Jesusaves)
+0
Page 1